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but he uh but he actually i think what i find in listening some of his stuff is that he does use programming metaphors a lot right
he'll talk about apis or object oriented and things like that so i think that's a useful set of frames for him to draw upon for
uh discourse um i haven't paired programmed with him in a very long time you've you've previously well i mean trying to try to help like put together
Listen to native speakers pronounce “object oriented” in real conversational contexts with synchronized timestamps and subtitles.