yes and we bought an old Volkswagen in Germany and we drove a car from Frankfurt we ran out of money in cabal and cabal at that time was to us the Wild West in the Eastit was a shangra la it was a peaceful wonderful place school girls wore short
That's the way they wanted it. And so, to have some arrogant outsider show up and say, "Here's what you need is this race." Caballo always said, "They don't need anything. They're doing fine on their own." He offered to them; they accepted. If they weren't interested, they would not turn up for the race. Caballo's thinking is, "Look, they're backs are against the wall. The Mexican government keeps pushing roads in here. The drug cartels are dominating the region.
burning, so I was wondering if you had any suggestions there. Caballo's thing was "easy, light, smooth, and fast." Focus on 'easy' first, because if that's all you get, that ain't so bad.
of running, which is based on the principles of weightlessness. Caballo had learned it. I wanted to learn it too. And I had a greater incentive too. Because Caballo had this plan, this thing he wanted to do. He wanted to put on a race between the Tarahumara
them to their prehistoric counterparts. And see whether there isn't not some sort of common ground there. Whether these ultra runners are not trying Caballo would later say was a "World class event down here in the middle of nowhere.” And you know, it's something kind of sort of unique happened after that event, which
And it's this, snarly, mangy, lesioned thing. But Caballo treated this thing like a baby and cared for it down in the canyons. And wherever he went-- he actually was back in Boulder, Matt.
Maria Walton's desperately trying to reach you. That's Caballo's girlfriend. So I borrowed her phone and called Maria back. And she said, I think we need help.
they could do. So it's this gigantic race. And it was Caballo's masterpiece. It was, finally, his dream had come true.
And so after the race, Maria was up in Arizona. And so Caballo was driving north. And he stopped off in New Mexico.
the tribal zones over to Pasa in Pakistan it was like going on a Sunday drive at that same time there was a university in cabalan the University exists today and in the Islamic faculty men who had been influenced by a guy named Rani who
But, as it turned out, I was wrong. There actually is a White Horse, and I did manage to locate him. And he was way beyond my expectations, because -- just coincidentally -- this guy Caballa Blanca, White Horse, was in exactly the same position I was in when he first came down to the canyons. He's my exact height. He's my exact shoe size.
them to their prehistoric counterparts. And see whether there isn't not some sort of common ground there. Whether these ultra runners are not trying The only problem with Caballo is, racewise, there basically was not a chance in hell he's going to have any racers. I wrote an article for Runner’s World.
struggle in 1979 I was watching television in here in the US I watched the Soviet tanks coming to cabal and I said I have to go back Soviet Union had invaded Afghanistan and something drew me back I went back to Pakistan had an arrangement with the New
Pero elijo las causas que me apasionan, ¿no? Y ahí pasé a Séptimo de Caballería, que fue un período donde no hice discos largos y pasé a Sereno,
Pero elijo las causas que me apasionan, ¿no? has hablado del Séptimo de Caballería.
Most of the major diseases were vaccinated against or preventable. And I would say there is a small cabal of about 20 scientists in the UK that regularly engage to try to block or counter
Pero luego, no soy un hombre al que le haya costado encontrarse todo el día en su casa. El respeto, la caballerosidad que ha tenido él.
se involucraron, ponían como su granito de arena. Yo veía a veces que entre Alfonso y Eugenio Caballero, como se ponían a discutir de, ¿y te acuerdas que una loseta así estaba? Y en esa época era como típico que estuvieran en las casas y ya era como esta mezcla de sus recuerdos.
But the bond between them was really tight. And one thing you knew for sure was that Caballo would never ever leave the dog tied up overnight. So what Maria told me had happened was, in 2013, that race which he had begun down the canyon a few years before-- and the year we
So that became my ambition. I wanted to come back to the States, spend nine months training for this race to see if I could learn how to run like a Tarahumara, and turn myself into kind of like a 21st century Caballo Blanco, and go back for that race. And see if, just by learning the motion -- you know, there's the theory of psychology that if you want to be happy, the first step is just to 'act happy', you know?
I was intrigued for one other reason as well, too. When I got out of the canyons after that visit with Caballo and the Tarahumara, I started to look into long distance running. And I discovered that there have been certain mysteries of human history that, to this day, have never been answered.
them to their prehistoric counterparts. And see whether there isn't not some sort of common ground there. Whether these ultra runners are not trying and mobile. Caballo talks about a 95-year-old Tarahumara guy that he saw cruising across a 30-mile mountain range at age 95.
Pero luego, no soy un hombre al que le haya costado encontrarse todo el día en su casa. Es una experiencia. Lo estoy experimentando de manera cabal , absoluta, enorme.
I want to live in a positive, awesome place because it has the potential to do incredible things for humanity. And it's when a group of people get together and kind of cabal .
But then something else happened. And if you've read "Born to Run," you're familiar with Caballo Blanco, Micah True, who lived most of his life out at Matt's home town of Boulder, that and the Nederland region, and then went down to the Copper Canyons of Mexico to spend his time with the Tarahumara Indians.
And the only thing they have in common is, they're all miserable. But I watched this dude, Caballo, and this guy is in his 50's. And we went up this steep trail. And he went up -- it looked like he was running downhill instead of uphill. It was like smoke going up into the air, just
Scott Jurek, who actually is a legitimate runner, a 7-time winner of the Western States 100, course record holder for the Badwater ultra marathon Death Valley, and myself. And we ended up heading down for this race with the Tarahumara and Caballo Blanco. Every step of the way I assumed was going to be the last step, especially when -- on his first day as a guide -- Caballo lost two out of the six people that were part of his
Caballo always said, "They don't need anything. They're doing fine on their own." He offered to them; they accepted. If they weren't interested, they would not turn up for the race. Caballo's thinking is, "Look, they're backs are against the wall. The Mexican government keeps pushing roads in here. The drug cartels are dominating the region. It's a great place to grow drugs, because you can't get helicopters or SUVs down there, so drug enforcement can't get down there. You can grab the Tarahumara and dragoon them
Caballo had learned it. I wanted to learn it too. And I had a greater incentive too. Because Caballo had this plan, this thing he wanted to do. He wanted to put on a race between the Tarahumara and kind of a karmically-screened elite group of outside ultra runners, which sounded pretty
They generate conspiracy theory. They say, "Oh my God, there's a cabal out there." And you know what? They have sinister motives.
can't police your neighborhood if you don't help me we get into a lot of that we have on the show a black mayor who who is a come came up as a community activist so we have a whole that whole cabal and then over here you have the The Thin Blue Line and when we can get them both going because both have good
barefoot Batman, naked guy, the Kalahari bushmen, the toenail amputee, a cult devoted to distance running and sex parts, the wild man of the Blue Ridge Mountains, and ultimately, to the ancient tribe of the Tarahumara, and their shadowy disciple Caballo Blanco. In the end, I got my answer, but only after I found myself in the middle of the greatest race the world would never see -- the ultimate fighting competition of foot races, an underground
Just being a barbarian, running through the woods. You know, listening to Jenn was like communing with the ghost of Caballo Blanco. So, I said to her, "You know, it's weird how much you sound like this guy I met in Mexico.
I want to live in a positive, awesome place because it has the potential to do incredible things for humanity. So I find this unethical in many ways, because, A, all of those comments are coerced because if you don't do what this cabal says,
El primer algoritmo es muy lógico. Y explora un árbol de búsqueda y dice cosas como, OK, en este espacio, si moví mi caballo para acá. Y tiene métricas que nosotros podemos entender como, tengo control del tablero, cuántas piezas tengo, sigo teniendo la reina.
¿No echas de menos el analógico? Pues, mire usted, yo nunca he viajado en carreta de caballos. No sé. A lo mejor era muy bueno la brisa.
Pero elijo las causas que me apasionan, ¿no? Ya. Pero en el Séptimo tú te sentabas ahí y traías a gente de otro tipo, tenías-- si nos acordáis, el Séptimo de Caballería era un programa--
So the children are stunted and show signs of emaciation and then "obesity begins to manifest itself in the female population and reaches enormous proportions from 30 onwards." So here's that question asked again. Exactly the same observation, exactly the same question 30 years later, this time by Benjamin Caballero of Johns Hopkins. And now, within this paradigm of calories in, calories out, of overeating. When, when
And now, within this paradigm of calories in, calories out, of overeating. When, when Richards asked in 1973, he had an open mind. He didn't know what the answer was. But now Benjamin Caballero thinks he knows the answer, which is the answer we all think we know. And he says, a few years ago, this was in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2005, an article called 'Obesity and Malnutrition: A Nutrition Paradox'.
At that point, he realized that the thing he was there to discover, was on the verge of being extinguished. You know, the Tarahumara only number about 40,000 today. Of that 40,000, only a small minority still practice the ancient running traditions. And what this guy -- the White Horse, Caballo Blanco -- realized was that, in his lifetime, that candle could be extinguished.
And we ended up heading down for this race with the Tarahumara and Caballo Blanco. Every step of the way I assumed was going to be the last step, especially when -- on his first day as a guide -- Caballo lost two out of the six people that were part of his group. But eventually, he actually pulled off this race. And it was beyond anything I could have expected.
to them since the book's come out? And the attention that may have been drawn to them as a result of the book? Chris McDougall: Yeah, that's a great question. And it's exactly the question that Caballo wrestled with for a long time before he decided to launch this race. You know, the Tarahumara have voluntarily lived in seclusion.
It's a great place to grow drugs, because you can't get helicopters or SUVs down there, so drug enforcement can't get down there. You can grab the Tarahumara and dragoon them into carrying drugs out of the canyon. Six bodies a week were turning up in the canyon being tossed off the edges of the cliffs. So Caballo's thought was, "Look, yeah. This is a gamble. This is a risk. But, it's an appreciable risk, because the payoff could be this validation of the Tarahumara as the custodians of this lost art.
burning, so I was wondering if you had any suggestions there. Chris McDougall: Hang on. The one time I've gotten injured in the past couple of years was the time I went back to wearing shoes. I thought, "Okay, now I run like Caballo,
doing its thing. This brought us sort of full circle, and I felt like I was on the verge of getting my hands on a lot of really cool wisdom that's all been out there, but essentially hadn't all been sort of tongue-in-groove and locked together yet. And I think Caballo's aspiration was that the moment to do this would be at his race. What if he could bring down some ultra runners, people who specialize in hundred-mile races? Bring them down to the canyons, and introduce
them to their prehistoric counterparts. And see whether there isn't not some sort of common ground there. Whether these ultra runners are not trying That's what I love. Just being a barbarian, running wild through the woods. You know, I thought to myself, "Listening to Jenn was like communing with the ghost of Caballa Blanco.”