How to pronounce “subrah” in English

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: and as the title suggests, it focuses on the all pervasive girlie-girl culture thatwho targets little girls. So for those of, for those in our audience that might

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: where I take all the wonderful things that you and Adriana and such say, and squoosh them into --

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Peggy Orenstein: this big. But it's I think part of what's going on with girls in particular, but all of us in general, is this idea of the performance culture --

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: and the ways that I was looking at girls but I think you could look at it from a lot of difference different slices. T, they learn to define themselves from the

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Absolutely. I think one of the things that we are seeing with all of this new media, especially the newer interactive media, is that there is so many

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: what the impact is.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Absolutely. Peggy Orenstein: Yeah.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: In terms of what does it do for your long term identify identity development.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. Peggy Orenstein: but there's a lot of research on girls and identity, girls and femininity, girls and kind of the externalization of sexuality.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Peggy Orenstein: Let me think about that for a second, but it was about -- oh it was about the difference between sexualization and sexuality --

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: and that one of the things as a parent and as a thinker that became a guiding principle for me that made some of the choices easier was distinguishing between

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Absolutely. Peggy Orenstein: and is that, -- what does it mean? And is there some way that for girls that's a sense of, shows a sort of progress that they could be embracing their sexuality,

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. Peggy Orenstein: or what?" And when I talked to researchers and I'd be interested to know Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right, I mean I think again there isn't a whole lot of literature on these issues, but if you look at the literature on pornography, for instance, individuals

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: I think what it is doing is that it might have some implications down the road in terms of girls' views about intimacy, their expectations for relationships,

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. And I don't have a whole lot of conversations with my son about these topics 'cause he's very private and he really doesn't like to have these discussions.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: they forward messages, they copy and paste their instant messages, sync messages that they have with friends, they forward it on. S so they really don't

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: online. So that is something. And when parents didn't have those conversations, if teachers had those conversations, then those kids were significantly less at

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: that if you don't point out -- Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Correct. I think when you look at parental mediation strategies that is one of the strategies, that you can use. Now those strategies do work with television

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: or with their little -- Peggy Orenstein: with their text yeah -- Kaveri Subrahmanyam: cell phone device next to them in their bed, how do you then know

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Messages. Peggy Orenstein: messages and alternatives to what used to be a kind of mono mainstream message ?

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Absolutely. Peggy Orenstein: that's really valuable for them.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right, absolutely. I think, for instance, there is literature that suggests that kids are coming out, gay teens are coming out at younger and younger

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: the teen at Rutgers who was sort of quasi-bullied I guess through his roommate's videotaping him.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: “It Gets Better”, thank you. So again technology can also serve as a pathway if you will as -- Peggy Orenstein: Yeah.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: you said to open up these new – these alternative possibilities.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: you think about gay youth who are African-American or Latino -- these individuals I think have even more options with technology. So I think --

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. So okay let's, -- I just wanna talk a little bit about the history again because -- Peggy Orenstein: Uh-huh.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: one of the, and the second chapter where you're talking about pink, what was it pink drills, no I'm just kidding, pink stuffs, pink blocks, and whatnot

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: And in fact I was telling you the 1950 Peter Pan movie in fact had little Michael in a pink jumper.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: And I -- Peggy Orenstein: Yeah, you wouldn't see that now. And it's much actually more than that. If you go back a hundred years --

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. Peggy Orenstein: all babies wore white, they wore white dresses -- Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. Peggy Orenstein: and they were pink and blue and then when they were assigned a sex, pink was assigned to boys and blue was assigned to girls because pink was considered to be

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: At this point.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Michael I think, yes.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: in the little feety pajamas and somebody sent me pictures of Michael Reagan in the 1960's wearing an all pink suit. So I mean if Ronald Reagan's dressed in the same

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: and I was taking my daughter and a friend of hers to go scootering in the park and her friend had a pink scooter and a pink Hello Kitty helmet and my daughter

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: And my daughter said, "Well it's for boys or for girls." And the other girl kinda looked skeptical and I thought in that little interaction ?

Kaveri Subrahmanyam,: there was so much going on about what the expectation is for girls, what the mandate is for girls about what might happen if you don't follow that

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: and makeovers and the whole thing. And it's just, it's too narrow. I mean

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Absolutely. Now I know you have tried to have those mixed messages, multi messages that girls can do anything and I know as a parent of a girl I did the

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: It really is.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. Peggy Orenstein: I am inconsistent, I am hypocritical, I am contradictory 'cause that's what it means to be a parent, right?

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: And I'm like not a tiger mom I'm like a -- Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Peggy Orenstein: dog on four roller skates mom, I think is what I am. But so I think

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: The first is to understand why that happens in preschool. And what happens is that kids don't understand the whole penis vagina thing. And let's just for the sake

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: Iit's natural for them, much as I hated to hear it, to go for stereotypical toys. And the difference in toy choice is one of the biggest gender differences across

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum. Peggy Orenstein: of preschooler's brains and the ways that the inborn differences -- Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Um-hum.

Kaveri Subrahmanyam: Right. Peggy Orenstein: in “Pink Brain, Blue Brain”. And so any time kids play across sex, it is healthy and important and good for them cognitively, psychologically, emotionally,