Evgeny Morozov argues that there's actually no such thing as "the internet," which he likes to put in scare quotes.
Evgeny Morozov: Sure. Well I was not referring to the doctrine when I said this.
Evgeny Morozov: But I mean the idea of The Google Doctrine I think to me it's just a useful moniker to describe I think the somewhat dubious relationship that has now emerged
Evgeny Morozov: basically and email groups to identify some of the dissidents, to identify some of the protesters. They turned to Flicker actually to fetch some of the photos that
Evgeny Morozov: I wouldn't go that far to say that it was negative. Again it did not, it did not help the protesters to an extent that many people in the West thought that
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. Steve Grove: that whole phenomena -- why are those of us in the West or in America, why were we so prone, if in fact this --
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. Steve Grove: there is a net delusion, that it's a delusional viewpoint -- why are we so prone to have it? Why was everyone so excited --
Evgeny Morozov: Sure. Steve Grove: about technology if, in fact, there was only 60 people Twittering from inside Iran and the net effect was ?
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. Steve Grove: difficult for many activists?
Evgeny Morozov: Um. Um-hum. Well I mean some of it I think has roots in just how we think about the liberating power of technology, not just the Internet. Again I have an entire
Evgeny Morozov: and the power of the Internet. I mean I spent some time analyzing Hillary Clinton's big speech last year on Internet freedom.
Evgeny Morozov: Well I mean technically it was a speech on Internet freedom and she did another speech on 21st century statecraft --
Evgeny Morozov: but it was the museum speech -- Steve Grove: Yeah.
Evgeny Morozov: on January 21st. And you look at that speech and the way she described some of the problems ahead in terms of Internet freedom are all framed and phrased in terms
Evgeny Morozov: Yeah. I mean yes, but also evaluating bloggers and blogging as just a logical continuation of those older processes of Samizdat printing, Samizdat distributing
Evgeny Morozov: 1989. I mean they -- it's no longer just the battle of the bad guys who are in the government and the good guys who are opposing the government. I mean they
Evgeny Morozov: Yeah. Steve Grove: Tell us a little bit about how -- Evgeny Morozov: Sure.
Evgeny Morozov: or anything of that sort. So I've always been interested in sort of finding some softer morals in which to open up the country and to promote democratic
Evgeny Morozov: use of media. So I thought, "Gee, I mean great. Let's just use all of that, let's use blogs and social networks and all of those new platforms to basically
Evgeny Morozov: western Europe and places like Mongolia even. And eventually I became Director of New Media which meant that I traveled throughout that region, gave trainings to
Evgenhy Morozov: Yeah. Steve Grove: Were they -- Evgeny Morozov: Well, I mean for them it was easy I mean they wanted to promote their
Evgeny Morozov: Yeah. Steve Grove: gets out of your argument?
Evgeny Morozov: Yeah I mean to me the primary interest of course is still policy makers.
Evgeny Morozov: sort of media, new media public. To me the big, the primary market for the book is Washington or London, and Brussels. It's people who are thinking about
Evgeny Morozov: to me the question is do you as Google or does Facebook or Twitter want to be seen necessarily in Russia or China or Iran as the Voice of America or Radio Free
Evgeny Morozov: Yes, but also I just don't see how exactly -- there is no firm approach, there is no coherent approach. You have on the one hand the State Department accusing
Evgeny Morozov: Yeah. Steve Grove: to dig a little bit more -- Evgeny Morozov: Sure.
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. Steve Grove: right. Like more information is better for the world and having -- Evgeny Morozov: Sure.
Evgeny Morozov: But I think it doesn't really matter whether I agree with that. The question is how will that mission be perceived abroad by certain governments and how will that mission
Evgeny Morozov: Yeah. I mean in some sense if you look at the sort of public reaction to what happened particularly in Tunisia I think there was still quite a bit of hype
Evgeny Morozov: Well again the question is to what extent will that influence a load of U.S. foreign policy. You may argue that there will be cases where, and now we're seeing
Evgeny Morozov: or Americans feel that they need to push their government to change the policy on Egypt. I mean I'm also sure that there will be cases where similar images will
Evgeny Morozov: views each video gets ?
Evgeny Morozov: Steve Grove: It'd be interesting. If that was the case, Charlie the Unicorn would be President of the United States.
Evgeny Morozov: Steve Grove: I'd like to open it for questions if you have questions for Evgeny, there's mics here and here and I don't know if anybody in the VC has one, but feel free to chime
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. male #1: there's a bad side. And this, the two sides are in anything.
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. As far as sort of the argument that seems to be made here, it seems to me that a fundamental
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. male #1: and that it will be considered useful. And thus for us to have a democracy, Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum.
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. male #1: of that technology and better technology if we want to see democracy in the future.
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. male #1: It may be that there's some unfortunate consequences along the way.
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. male #1: But no matter how much sort of unfortunate consequences there may be, ?
Evgeny Morozov: Sure. male #1: I think we need to accept that doing more with this technology ?
Evgeny Morozov: Um-hum. male #1: is absolutely necessary ?
Evgeny Morozov: Sure. male #1: and that we should never hold back ?
Evgeny Morozov: Sure. male #1: of building tools that make it easier for people to communicate, store information, exchange it, etcetera.
Evgeny Morozov: Sure, I mean I think it's the right direction to think about it. The question is really I mean it's nice to be building tools right and it's nice to be building
Evgeny Morozov: which has a policy based on what?
Evgeny Morozov: Yes. male #1: and if democracy relies on the ability of the people to ?
Evgeny Morozov: Yes. male #1: communicate, store, etcetera ?
Evgeny Morozov: Yeah. male #1: then how could we do anything other than work constantly to increase the facility