that that rule-breaking sometimes becomes absorbed into the culture as something mainstream. Bayard's resistance was based on nonviolence and on his Quaker upbringing. And the whole idea about nonviolence-- it's really based on love.
and gotten right back in the fight, starting resisting. Bayard and A. Philip Randolph, they dealt largely with the issues of racial discrimination and segregation and Jim Crow from the '40s to the '60s. But then once some of those laws were passed and there was civil rights legislation, the Voting Rights Act, they really understood that the larger issue
so that they could advance their careers, had families. Bayard didn't do that kind of thing. So the number of people who were really living their authentic selves-- and Baldwin was one also-- were very few.
the percentage of black gay men in the world who had an education, who were interested in nonviolence, who were political-- it keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Bayard did have relationships with black gay men-- sexual relationships. But in terms of long-term partners, that's really about values.
So it's sometimes a limitation to my ability as a filmmaker, and I think about that. Bayard Rustin was totally inspirational for me in college as well. The movie "Brother Outsider" and his early life as a communist and his debate with Malcolm X--
People always refer to James Baldwin. And Bayard had a relationship with James Baldwin, a friendly relationship, and they occasionally appeared on panels together and worked together and that kind of thing.
and that kind of thing. But Bayard was different because he was out there. He was more authentic.
I had known who Bayard Rustin was. But Bayard was noted for carrying a walking stick, a cane. Well, it's only a cane if you need it.
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So I'm going to try to get through each question here. But I arrived at Bayard Rustin when I was in college. I considered myself a very good student of history prior to college.
Oh, that's interesting, because I think this documentary complements "Brother Outsider" a great deal, because in "Brother Outsider," you see Bayard debating Malcolm X. You see Bayard at podiums talking and pointing his finger and very militant. And I think this one shows a softer side of him.
So when Stokely Carmichael was coming up, people like that, they really went to Bayard as opposed to going to Roy Wilkins or Whitney Young. They went to Bayard, and they went to Ella Baker. That might be a name that is familiar to some of you.
At the moment that I met him, I wasn't sure. I had known who Bayard Rustin was. But Bayard was noted for carrying a walking stick, a cane.
generally has a very small portion located in those history books. So it would make sense why Bayard would be left out as a marginalized person, being queer. But having arrived at him in college as I was coming into my own sexual identity as a black gay man, I took hold to Bayard in a way
So watching the documentary was very eye-opening for me. I had previously known that Bayard Rustin had been in a long-term partnership with someone who was white, having had been a very distinguished person within the civil rights movement.
that black queer people are facing in this country at this time? As I've done research about Bayard, I've found very little of him engaging with black queer people of his generation. And that's been something that has always been a gray area for me.
This is often something I think about as well. Given the documentary and seeing where Bayard Rustin comes from as far as his Quaker upbringing, I think that gives us a lot of context into how he went about engaging in relationships, which is very different.
There wasn't a gay movement. During the time that I met Bayard, there was. But in the time that he was maturing, there was not really much of a gay movement to speak of.
with a a quote from someone I have admired for decades maybe uh you all know as much or more about him than I do uh it's uh uh Bayard Rustin uh Mr Rustin as you may know worked Tire tirelessly alongside Martin Luther King Jr and other civil rights activists in the 60s in their common quest for racial
so the first line in your book is the single dream and drive of my life has if we also were told like them that Bayard Rustin a gay black man helped
So I went home and I googled Walter Naegle, her last name. And she failed to mention that Walter's partner had been Bayard Rustin, who I was a huge fan of, although I feel that a lot of people don't know who he is despite a very acclaimed documentary called "Brother Outsider" that came out in 2000, I believe.
that a lot of people don't know who he is despite a very acclaimed documentary called "Brother Outsider" that came out in 2000, I believe. And that's how I had heard of Bayard. So that's how the whole project got started.
You're going to try and bridge the gap that already exists. And so that was really the framework that Bayard had to operate in. And so he had to come up with really creative demonstrations, creative marches, ideas that were really uniting people as opposed to just broadening the gap.
So I think just the fact that he was really so human and warm and really always willing to reach out to people, especially young people. Bayard was one of the leaders who was an inspiration. And because of his radical politics, especially in his younger years, young people gravitated to him because younger people tend to be more radical.
And I think a little less so on identity politics, but more on bringing people together on the issue of economic justice. Something that I think about often is if Bayard was alive today, would he have been involved in any of the political fights that black queer people are facing in this country at this time?
telling this story, which is a story of the civil rights movement but through a very particular personal lens. And Walter's been such an amazing ambassador for Bayard's legacy. And that's part of the reason I didn't feel like the film needed additional points of view to historicize Bayard.
equality I might add that many of the historical accounts of the civil rights movement of the 60s uh don't mentioned that Bayard Rustin was gay Rustin said this on the subject of protesting and fighting for equality he said quote we
And Walter, I feel like we all have so many questions for you, but if I could just ground us in one. So you were 27, and Bayard was 65. And so intergenerational, interracial-- just tell us about that experience and braving those intersections.
And then Shawn, as someone who has studied academically race and ethnic studies and also someone who is younger and also African-American, how did you first learn about Bayard Rustin? And what were your thoughts before the film?
I considered myself a very good student of history prior to college. But I noticed in our history books, Bayard Rustin was purposely left out. And given what we know about US history and how it's taught to K through 12, we know that black history in general
within our communities. So basically resisting those internal forces that can disrupt it. Thank you. As I reflect on Bayard and this film, I'm struck by the fact that it just took me so long to learn about him. I think that I was in college when I found out about him.
Do we have any audience questions? I would love to know or have you speculate as to what Bayard would be thinking and doing today in terms of the political landscape, in terms of where we are with gay rights, with things that are happening within the black community.
And Walter's been such an amazing ambassador for Bayard's legacy. And that's part of the reason I didn't feel like the film needed additional points of view to historicize Bayard. So I think there's been recent films, like a film about Martha P. Johnson, where these issues have really come to the fore about authorship,
But he introduced himself. But because I was interested in the movement in my high school years, and Bayard was showing up in the press quite a lot, I knew who he was.
Thank you for that. And also, I just want to thank you guys for humanizing Bayard for us and bringing home this notion of love and respect and creativity. I think that that transcends time and space.
When I was a kid growing up, there was one community that represented Asia in general, and that was Chinatown Manhattan-- Mott Street, L Street, Bayard Street-- and it started to grow from there. As I got a little older, the joke was, Chinatown was kind of taking over all of downtown New York, right?
But it was all very, very perfectly natural for us at the time. As I said in the film, I was an old 27, and Bayard was a very youthful 65. And we really shared common values, common ideas, common interests.
So it would make sense why Bayard would be left out as a marginalized person, being queer. But having arrived at him in college as I was coming into my own sexual identity as a black gay man, I took hold to Bayard in a way that a lot of my peers did not.
as well, I think it was cool to see those layers there. Yeah. Thank you. And I love how there are three distinct different views and perspectives on Bayard. And that's what we're really looking to show here.
And this is a question for all of you. And so Matt, I was reading an article that you were quoted in, and you talked about Bayard's creative resistance. So if you can talk about that.
But he is still largely unknown in a lot of spaces. So before we go to audience questions, Walter, I would love for you to tell us, what's the one thing that we wouldn't know about Bayard and that we wouldn't get from the documentary?
And because of his radical politics, especially in his younger years, young people gravitated to him because younger people tend to be more radical. So when Stokely Carmichael was coming up, people like that, they really went to Bayard as opposed to going to Roy Wilkins or Whitney Young. They went to Bayard, and they went to Ella Baker.
So the number of people who were really living their authentic selves-- and Baldwin was one also-- were very few. So in terms of the pool of applicants, I guess you could say, for Bayard having relationships with people was not that great. If you think about the percentage of gay men in the world, the percentage of black gay men in the world,
stories that involve experiences that we will never be able to experience as white folks. So I'm curious-- a question for Matt is, did you encounter any challenges-- since you were telling Walter's story, certainly, but this was also a story about Bayard. I'm curious whether you encountered any challenges trying to sort of create an artistic narrative of a man of color knowing that that